CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

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Bongskit
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CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:34 pm

Hey guys! From the Philippine Islands here. I have been lurking around here as well as in sohc4dotnet for quite some time reading and studying things about the bike. I decided to start this thread to have a fellow help me build this beauty back on the road again.

A little background to where it came from, I saw her ads in a local flea-bay. Have to travel arond 100km to take her back home. Her last registration was 8 years ago (base on the last year it was registered) but I am not sure if the PO is accurate when was the last time it fired. The first time I came to see it and hear the engine condition, its not turning over. I've been told his local mechanic able to fix something about the harness the following day. Came back the following weekend and sure she was running with a little noise that appears to be coming from the top/head area.

The amount I paid might be expensive to you due to the exchange rate or something but I already got her cheap IMO. We are almost there in breaking vietnam and china's record for the most number of motorcycles plying the road. but most of the rides here are sub-400cc due to high cost of tax, maintenance and about a couple of parts supplier in the country. If you google around locally about a price of a bike 400cc and up, you will be shocked about the high price This is due to the high cost of tax and government bureaucracy. Some dealers and seller escape this by misdeclaring the papers such us lower displacement and number of pistons/cylinder which is a bad thing if the highway squad finds you.

The main reason she got my attention is her classic beauty and the papers are straight and accurate. Her importer or initial owner might be an expatriate because of the license plate holder and the effort and resource it took to bring her in the country. I am not sure if there's is anything like her still exists out here.

Without further ado. I'd show you her condition when I picked her up to bring her home:

When she was left outside for years. Good thing with a fair shade from sunlight and rain. Photos from the POs ad he posted

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here she is on her new home, removed the rack and tail marker lights temporarily. you will notice her 4-4 exhaust was "purposely" trimmed down.

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Last edited by Bongskit on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:55 pm

I ensured charging/electrical is in good order before I negotiated for the price (5 ohms+ in between slip rings. 14.8v @5k rpm). I have made my homework first! Thank you forum!

clutch cable won't budge, master cylinder is toast. one throttle cable appears to be modified or an alternate because of the brass nipple at the carb end. cylinder 1 looks like not firing right (warm exhaust manifold). tires deflated, pumped air in it, no leaks but noticeable cracks have shown the moment it balooned. Tank has some dirt or rust but not that much. PO must have sprayed something on it to prevent further decay while stagnant.

I haven't turned her since it came home. I had removed the carburetor to see whats up. more pics and progress to follow.

cb650
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby cb650 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:09 am

Dont forget the tank. Looks like a good start.
Did you clean the tank out?!?!?!?!

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:21 am

cb650 wrote:Dont forget the tank. Looks like a good start.


:lol: I have read a lot already and I think tank is always on the to-do list.

here is the carb, most (if not all) bowl screw threads already stripped. found lots of either thin sheets of shim or wires in it to have something the screws to bite unto.bowl gaskets and o rings were either broken or brittle. you guys think I should break them apart? I am afraid I will run into trouble getting them back together.

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no wonder during testing, when we tried to pour some gas into its makeshift tank reservoir with inline filter, she started to spill some gas.

there is also some white oxidation that I managed to scrubbed off on carb 4

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Last edited by Bongskit on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:28 am

these 2 screws wont come off no matter how many times I tried. It just keeps on turning. used a drill and chucked a socket wrench until it started to turn fast and caused the copper to stick out from the plastic due to the heat/friction.

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MiGhost
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby MiGhost » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:38 pm

To address the airfilter screws first. There are small metal collars that are pressed into the housing to hold those screws. The fact that the screws turn freely without turning out shows that those collars are already striped free from the housing. You will need to use a flat object (Flat blade screwdriver) under the cover to pry it up as you turn the screws to remove the cover. Use something like a jack nut, or well nut to provide a thread to reattach the cover.

http://www.thread-rite.com/pop_rivets/jacknut.htm
http://www.thread-rite.com/pop_rivets/wellnut.htm

On the carbs.
The poor, dried out, brittle condition of those float bowl o-rings is also a good indication of the fuel rail, and accellerator pipe o-rings. It will be necessary to brake down the rack completely to replace those o-rings.

All the info you will need for the gaskets, and seals to rebuild those carbs can be found in the following post.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6553

Ghost
~ Ghost

PD50 Carb Info
82 CB650SC Brake Caliper Info

Stable
Wayward Son:1980 CB650C, RestoMod Period Custom Touring
Bad Moon: 1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim, Full Dress Tour Deluxe w/ X-1 Fairing
Nemesis: 1983 XJ750K Maxim, Old School style chopper

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:55 pm

MiGhost: thank you for the suggestions. highly appreciate it sir.

I managed to pry it out. the screw seized with the collar. I will see if I can find that jack/well nut here. I never knew that thing exists. It looks perfect for my application.

OK. took the courage to dismantle the group but I run into problem so I think I should stop for awhile see what you guys suggest before its too late.

I cant take this screw off the piston area of carb #1. without taking this off, I am stuck with all the 3 carbs still grouped together. :(

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I was thinking If this one is removable so i can remove carb #2 and #3 and get good leverage to remove the screw off carb #1.

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thank you to my trusty Blackberry Bold 9780 for the great depth of field. :lol:

MiGhost
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby MiGhost » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:18 am

There still may be enough of that screw left to use an impact driver on to break it loose. Also try using some penetrating oil on it. Commonly available in the states with brand names like PBblaster, or Kroil.

If the impact driver fails. You will have to drill the screw out, and retap the threads.

Ghost
~ Ghost

PD50 Carb Info
82 CB650SC Brake Caliper Info

Stable
Wayward Son:1980 CB650C, RestoMod Period Custom Touring
Bad Moon: 1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim, Full Dress Tour Deluxe w/ X-1 Fairing
Nemesis: 1983 XJ750K Maxim, Old School style chopper

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Volker_P
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Volker_P » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:56 am

Welcome here! :D

Looks like it needs some work but really not bad.
As you started to talk about money, how much is a bike like that in $ or € ?
I know that bigger bikes might be quite expensive (and might only be registered with "strange" documents if the county does not allow for big bikes) in some south asian countries.

Your carb bowl seals do not look like a good chance for any really intact rubber parts in that carbs any more.
For the screw, one may try to cut a slot for a screwdriver. Heat may help, too, but of course rubber parts must be removed before trying that.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:06 am

again, thank you all. indeed brethren.. :D

Volker: as for the amount I paid, it cost about 1000USD, it is too much to some, if we are going to convert it to any currency. but I think its already cheap considering the legitimacy of the papers and actual price of it when it was imported. just FYI, second hand imported bikes at 600cc cost likes its brand new here. regardless of the condition, customs will charge the importer like it was brand new plus duties. the bigger the displacement and numbers of cylinder the bigger cash you need to shell out.

as for the screw, i have an impact driver but i need a smaller head. need to visit a hardware store later. i am afraid i might break something or the whole casting. i would die!

when i removed carb number #4 earlier, the o-rings (big and small tube) are in good shape. i can use some blow torch on the screw but chances are i am going to damage the nearest o-rings. kits are so scarce and expensive here. i might not get a replacement. availability is still a question mark. i am trying to salvage anything i can. bowl gasket, jets and needle valve are available, as well as the o-rings for the pilot screw, drain screw and accelerator pump the last time I ask a local shop/dealer.

will update this thread again for the progress.

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:45 pm

ok. managed to dismantle all of them. turns out there's 2 that i needed the impact screw driver. the other one is from carb #2 lever.

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is this thing removable? the hole does not looks like a allen wrench cavity. no evidence of prior force removal


Image

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Volker_P
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Volker_P » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:00 am

I guess this is a part of the accelerator pump mechanism.
So basically a pure mechanic function and typically no need to remove it at all.
I try to have a closer look anyway.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

MiGhost
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby MiGhost » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:56 pm

That bracket is permanently attached to the carb body. Do not try to remove it!

Ghost
~ Ghost

PD50 Carb Info
82 CB650SC Brake Caliper Info

Stable
Wayward Son:1980 CB650C, RestoMod Period Custom Touring
Bad Moon: 1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim, Full Dress Tour Deluxe w/ X-1 Fairing
Nemesis: 1983 XJ750K Maxim, Old School style chopper

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:43 am

Thank you as always MiGhost!

While waiting for my ultrasonic cleaner, rechecked each carb and have removed all the throttle shaft o-ring. Are carb #1 and carb#4 throttle shaft o-rings should be like these two? It looks like some sort or strong paper or leather of some kind?

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also, 3 of the air cutoff valves appears to be needing replacement.

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you guys think these o-rings needs replacement as well while Im on it?

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Bongskit
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Re: CB650C Project from P. I. Needs help of a brethren..

Postby Bongskit » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:18 am

wow! that cut-off valve really cost so much here. was like 65usd a piece.

also, you guys know if this would cause so much trouble? one of the idle screw needle is broken. there is none available in here and this is the only thing I needed to build all the pieces back together. I've been told they needed to order it and allso i tcost so much just for a single piece.


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