Cheap Replacement Regulator

If it's broken or just needs tweaked

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Pinhead
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Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:35 pm

EDIT

I no longer use the Ford regulator due to the pinout discrepancies. I have decided to use a Dodge regulator, VR295.


When I first got my bike the field coil was shorted and the regulator was shot. I replaced the field coil but I thought there surely must be an alternative to the $100 aftermarket R/R or the extremely expensive RR from the dealer. I was right. I went to Advance Auto Parts and got a regulator for a '76 Ford F150 pickup for $15.

The regulator is almost the same size as the factory Honda Reg/Rec unit. I simply "sat" it on top of the airbox beneath where the factory reg/rec was hanging.

You must ground the case of the regulator. This should be the first connection (I recommend going straight to the negative battery terminal). Without a solid ground the regulator will quickly destroy itself.

Here is the basic wiring diagram.
Image

Notice that the rectifier is separate from the regulator. I originally installed two single-phase bridge rectifiers (found cheap at radio shack) but since then I have upgraded to a single triple-phase rectifier.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a "stable" link to the rectifiers on the internet. If you go to Radio Shack just ask for two 35-amp silicon rectifiers. Alternately search the 'net for a three-phase bridge rectifier. If you find something on the 'net but aren't sure if it'll work, just send me a PM and I'll try to verify asap.

There is one caveat to this solution, outlined by scottly at SOHC4...
scottly wrote:When I hooked it up on the bench according to the OP's method (after first testing it with the method I have suggested) I saw wisps of smoke within seconds from the surface-mount resistors in series with the "I" terminal. When the reg detects a non-charging condition, it applies ground to this terminal in order to light the indicator. The resistance of the lamp limits the current to as safe level. No lamp=smoke.
You MUST ground the reg case (this should be the first connection made), and you have to add a wire from the A term straight to Batt+ (this wire actually carries the current to the field, not the reference as I stated before. The reference is applied to the S term via the ignition switch.
Go by the labels on the reg, not the order, as Ford used 2 different plugs.


Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) every time I've ordered a Ford regulator I've gotten the same one as is in the diagram above. I would say if you go to an auto-parts store and they hand you a regulator, verify that it is labeled "A F S I" and not "I A S F". If they give you the wrong one just ask for a different year until you get the right one; I haven't been able to figure out which years/models/engines the different regulators are used on. :/ The one I'm using is a Duralast pn VR730.

I did verify that my regulator has been wired according to the original diagram and it works beautifully. IMHO, worst case scenario, the regulator fries and you're out $15...

EDIT

I no longer use the Ford regulator due to the pinout discrepancies. I have decided to use a Dodge regulator, VR295.


This is the most up-to-date diagram which eliminates the 10ma parasitic draw when the bike is shut off.
Image
Attachments
VR295.JPG
VR295.JPG (12.37 KiB) Viewed 6497 times
VR295 Diagram.jpg
VR295 Diagram.jpg (49.02 KiB) Viewed 6497 times
Last edited by Pinhead on Thu May 30, 2013 11:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

SchoolDaGeek
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby SchoolDaGeek » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:33 pm

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a "stable" link to the rectifiers on the internet. If you go to Radio Shack just ask for two 35-amp silicon rectifiers. Alternately search the 'net for a three-phase bridge rectifier. If you find something on the 'net but aren't sure if it'll work, just send me a PM and I'll try to verify asap.


Check out http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/DI ... C5001.html

or

http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/DI ... Phase.html

or any of their rectifiers.
Buy New, Wire Right. BNWR. LOL

Pinhead
Posts: 611
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:05 am

Yep, those will work. :) What I meant by a "stable" link is every time I post a link, it goes bad in a few months; the links in my original thread point to generic websites.

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Ouch
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Ouch » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:06 am

This needs to be a sticky :D :D :D

MattD
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Location: Philly burbs

Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby MattD » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:59 am

So, i unfortunately picked up one of the 'IASF' regulators.... my question is in regard to the plugs.

"Go by the labels on the reg, not the order, as Ford used 2 different plugs."

I also picked up a wiring plug/pigtail from rock auto, matches my IASF regulator. Some correct me if i'm wrong... but i'll make the obvious assumption that the plugs are NOT interchangable????? My 'I' pin is spaced away from the 'ASF' pins by a larger distance.

Worth the effort to make the 'I' terminal be useful and light up a indicator light??? Just put 12+ to a LED and use the I as ground, eh? (or would you need a bulb with some ammount of resistance)
Attachments
FordVR.jpg
FordVR.jpg (198.23 KiB) Viewed 7998 times

Pinhead
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:36 am

Did you get the regulator to charge? If so, I'll add your wiring scheme to my original post.

If you want to use an LED on the indicator light, you'll have to add some resistance in-line with the LED; as far as I know, the "I" terminal simply shorts to ground when the alternator isn't charging.

MattD
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby MattD » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:55 pm

Pinhead wrote:Did you get the regulator to charge? If so, I'll add your wiring scheme to my original post.


Not quite there yet. Not enough hours in the day, days in the week. :(

Pinhead
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:39 pm

I should note that when I tried running the A connection through the wiring harness, the headlight "pulsed" when charging. Running A+ directly to the battery solved that issue.

glaswerks
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby glaswerks » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:52 pm

Has anyone tried using the diode stack (think it was called a diode trio) out of a car alternator as a replacement for the rectifier.

I remember replacing one in my Chevy Vega alternator years ago for a non-charging problem and they were pretty cheap at that time.

Of course a simpler alternative would be 3 high current diodes with their cathodes tied together. Mouser or digikey should have them.

Gary

Here is a normal GM type... about $5.00

Image

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Volker_P
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Volker_P » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:24 am

When you talk of three diodes this is only a half-wave rectification?
Might be insufficient because the stock rectifier and also pinhead's solution will use both half-waves.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

glaswerks
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby glaswerks » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:25 am

Volker_P wrote:When you talk of three diodes this is only a half-wave rectification?
Might be insufficient because the stock rectifier and also pinhead's solution will use both half-waves.


You are correct, I looked at various rectifer schematics and realized that it is 6 diodes after I had written the comment. In 30+ years working in the electronics business (semiconductor manufacturing eq), I have only worked with 3 phase circuits a couple of time :).

And you would only be using a half of the sine wave with 3 diodes.

Gary

Pinhead
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:32 pm

I don't see why it wouldn't work (I actually contemplated this at one time). The only disadvantage I see would be complexity in mounting; you'd have to attach quite a heat sink since they're so compact, and you'd have to try to mimic the alternator's mounting style to keep from breaking the rectifier's leads.

glaswerks
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby glaswerks » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:59 pm

Pinhead wrote:I don't see why it wouldn't work (I actually contemplated this at one time). The only disadvantage I see would be complexity in mounting; you'd have to attach quite a heat sink since they're so compact, and you'd have to try to mimic the alternator's mounting style to keep from breaking the rectifier's leads.


I my buy one over the hoildays and see what I can come up with, always like a project to work on.....

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Volker_P
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Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Volker_P » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:20 am

It should work in principle, however I doubt it is a good idea to pass on half of the available alternator charging power at lower rpm.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

Pinhead
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Cheap Replacement Regulator

Postby Pinhead » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:39 am

Volker_P wrote:It should work in principle, however I doubt it is a good idea to pass on half of the available alternator charging power at lower rpm.


I'm fairly certain they're full-wave rectifiers. Just called diode trios because of the three "input" leads.

I may be wrong, though; it's happened once before. :lol:

EDIT: It looks like I've been wrong twice!

http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm
Image


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